Combat Patrol – LUP Sleeping Positions

AAR: TC3 14 Mar 2014 – BBQ’d
March 21, 2014
Meet Phil the Casualty
March 27, 2014

LUP_Sleep 1


There was a muted amount of griping on the last (first) Combat Patrol Class, about the slight slope that students had to sleep on in the Lay Up Position (LUP). If you review this post ‘Patrol Class: LUP vs. Patrol Base’ you will be able to see the rationale of why I decided to break with standard patrol base convention.

The intent was to utilize patrol base standard techniques, amended to select a position better suited to concealment from both ground and aerial thermal surveillance – thus, to use terrain masking. For exercise purposes the selected LUP had to be situated on the ranges. So there were two primary factors involved in selection of the current LUP site:

1) To give an example of best use of terrain masking.

2) There is no flat place in West Virginia!

Given the aforementioned griping (if the cap fits, wear it!), and given that my broken hand is still on the mend, I sent my 5 and 3 year old mini-Max’s out today to dig sleeping shelves in the side of the draw, at the patrol base site. 😉

These are not shell scrapes, but the discipline is similar. If you were less worried about ground sign, you could dig shelves like these to even out sloping ground.

LUP Sleep 2

Above: Hard at work. You better be grateful, and get a nice kip on next time you are on the patrol class, without griping.

Live Hard.

Die Free.





  1. Kyle "tyrantsbane" Labore III says:

    Tell ’em “suck it up you effin [substitute for kitty cats]”. If you have to sleep on a slope, do so with feet oriented downhill; it really IS that simple. What is it *exactly* that people think they are preparing for anyway?

  2. Cat says:

    That is awesome Max raising those boys to be as tough as you 🙂

  3. TomS says:

    I agree No Griping in a survival situation they say bury yourself in a tangle of brush would not be very tactical as you cannot maneuver, as well as a noise factor as soon as you move.

    Who would want to sleep soundly in that situation, you may not have a full belly and be short on adequate snivel gear, or injured with wet clothes..

  4. D Close says:

    “A bitching sailor is a happy sailor.” Or so I’ve heard. Yes, an e-tool should be standard in your patrol pack. I have tried to justify removing it but I just can’t. I lived in Hawaii for a time. There were legends there of the Menehune’, a small statured race that would complete great works in the dead of night and disappear. I see they exist in WV too.

  5. Ah- now I see how you’re getting stuff done around there… 😛

    Now, you’re saying people were complaining about having to sleep on a hill?
    Were they laying upside down?
    Or perhaps rolling down it? lol
    I don’t understand the issue here…?

    • Max Velocity says:

      It wasn’t really an issue, but comments in later AARs about the incline, dislike of wearing boots in a bag, inability to snatch a kip, etc. All identify a lack of time spent doing such things.
      Then there was the campfire and the smores. Only joking!
      But digging the sleep pads gives the LUP a permanent nature as a teaching tool, and allows students to concentrate on learning the mostest.

  6. shoe-man says:

    D Close — I’m with you on the ET.

    I carry a KABAR on my LBE, and old-style wood handled shovel & pick ET on the outside of my small patrol pack or large ALICE ruck — whichever I am carrying. The ET’s shovel and pick edges are as sharp as the knife blade.

    These are not snivel gear, they are SURVIVAL gear; both can be used to “dig” hasty positions and more… — like save your life!

    The KBAR is 1943; the ET is 1969. Oldies, but goodies.

    If told to prepare hasty positions, one best do so immediately. Verbalized bitching identifies the novices.


  7. a 3 and 5 yr old mini me with an e-tool might give a good approximation in digging to that of a wounded adult..Good way to guess what you can do if you have been hit in the arm or non vital upper body.

  8. Skittles says:

    The slope wasnt that bad. The bad part was all the snoring. Sounded like a bunch of angry bears with chainsaws

    • FiremanEd says:

      HEY !!!!!!! I resemble that comment!!! I didn’t see the problem, just rode my bag down the pad into the leaves until my feet hit the bottom of the slope then slept for a few. If my 14W rockies will go in a bag than there shouldn’t be many issues for normal sized folks.

  9. Matt says:

    If you’re tired enough you can sleep anywhere. Best nights sleep I ever had was half propped up on a gravel covered Afghan grave site leaning on the tombstone and wrapped in my woobie and poncho (ranger taco) with my kit and boots on. Exhaustion is the best sleep aid.

  10. Joe Fahy says:

    In the May PATROL class, I was going to try using a climbing stopper captured to the inside of my bivy with a cow hitch on the outside of the bivy. (This is analogous to using a rock captured to the inside center of your shelter tarp with a line to allow a center lift point when your tarp doesn’t have one.) Secure the other end of the cow hitch line to a stake uphill in the ground, climb in the bivy and use a caribiner to clip my harness grab handle to the stopper loop. Technique is used, sometimes multiple stoppers, to sleep securely in the mountains.

    Bergmann, have you tried this technique in your AO?


  11. SP says:

    I hope you’re paying those kiddies minimum wage for their graft!

  12. Burt Gummer says:

    I think this is the first time you rugrats have made an appearance.
    I’m thinking about useing a Micro/mini Shovel like the five year old as a e-tool [someting like -but not I’ve had mine for years- these read the reviews ] the one I have has a wooden handle if I cut the Y-D part off it looks just like my Cold Steel Special Forces Shovel.

  13. Diz says:

    Damn that’s awesome Max but I wouldn’t be surprised if some libtard sees this and raises hell about it. Kids actually doing any work is called child abuse in some circles.

    Anybody caught bitching at a MVT class again should be ashamed of themselves.

    Anybody still bitching after an opportunity to lay down and sleep needs more training.

  14. Hawkeye says:

    What is this “sleep” you speak of????

  15. Tater in SC says:

    Does is cost extra to get a California King size? I’m a pretty big guy, you know. 🙂

  16. […] my post ‘Combat Patrol – LUP Sleeping Positions’ I describe digging sleeping shelves in the sides of a ravine for an LUP on  my Combat Patrol […]

  17. […] my post ‘Combat Patrol – LUP Sleeping Positions’ I describe digging sleeping shelves in the sides of a ravine for an LUP on  my Combat Patrol […]