An Unconventional Patrolling Option

‘Max on how to Ruck like the SAS’
July 17, 2013
AAR on July 20/21 Training Weekend # 2
July 23, 2013
First off, I’ll say that I decided to write this post because I was looking at WRSA as I do every day and saw a link over to a post by Mountain Guerrilla HERE on ‘Patrolling for Preparedness’. It’s really good stuff and I could not agree more.
(Along with the video of Civil War veterans doing the Rebel Yell. Awesome!)
I notice that in comments a lot of people reference and link to both myself and JM/Mosby (i.e. Mountain Guerrilla), tying us in together. Although we have never actually met and come from different backgrounds, I like to think that between the two of us, and other contributors out there, we are providing needed information to help with the coming unpleasantness.
It is in that vein that I would like to add to Mosby’s patrolling piece. In the narrative he points out very succinctly the mindset of many preppers, which is a handicap: The whole barricading yourselves in the homestead, growing tomatoes, and beating off marauders with precision rifle fire at long range, while leaving the actual fighting to ‘others.’ It is that aspect that I am picking up on and hoping to help with.
When writing ‘Contact! A Tactical Manual for Post Collapse Survival’ I struggled with this – how to move  the manual and mindset from the protection of family and homestead and show the need for tactical teams for light infantry style operations (light infantry being the basis and building blocks of unconventional warfare/resistance operations). There is a point in the book where I move from family/group oriented protection operations to tactics for use by tactical teams in the assumption that the family is safe in a protected area while the teams go out and do what needs to be done. In the novel ‘Patriot Dawn;The Resistance Rises’ I take this further by describing a fictional near future scenario in which this could be undertaken. These books are there for you to learn from.
The concept that I would like to introduce today is that of the GDA patrol. This is, as usual with my posts, also covered in ‘Contact!’ in detail. GDA stands for Ground Domination Activity. This is not a standard patrol that you would find in a doctrine manual/FM, unless you are reading about British Army experiences in Northern Ireland. The reason that I am bringing up this subject is because I think that it has a great deal of use to a prepper family/group in a retreat as a form of defensive patrolling. I hope that this concept would bridge that gap between a purely static defensive mentality and a  refusal to get up to speed to go and conduct actual patrolling.
The GDA patrol came about from the need to protect isolated SF bases in Northern Ireland. It then moved on and evolved to other operations including places like Afghanistan and Iraq. It is a local short range security patrol.
GDA patrols used to be called MBP patrols which stand for ‘mortar baseplate patrols’, coming from the tendency of terrorist groups to attack SF bases with improvised mortars. These would often be set up inside a parked van, pre-angled and set off on a  timer. However, these GDA patrols are also general security patrols. Such patrols would be conducted by the element assigned to base protection duties. The idea would be to cover a footprint around the base out to the range of effective enemy attack, whether that be from mortars or small arms fire.
Now, conducting GDA patrols is in itself a risk, if you think about it. If you set patterns then the patrols themselves can be targeted, whether that be from sniper fire or from IED. It’s a game of cat and mouse, with terrorists constantly observing and targeting. To enhance the survivability of patrols, leaders would ensure that routines and patterns were not set. There should be no such thing as a ‘routine patrol’. Routes, times, numbers, formations, compositions, vehicle patrols, foot patrols or vehicle/foot combined patrols would all be mixed and matched to enhance the survivability of the patrol.

By means of example, I have commented before about the preppers great fear of being targeted at their property by a sniper. It was a similar thing with GDA patrols. There are other things that you can do to help that are beyond the scope of this article – vision screens etc. – but one thing that you should remember is that the terrorist in Northern Ireland is not like the terrorist in the Middle East. He is not a fanatic and does not want to die. Similarly, anyone targeting you post-collapse also does not want to die. One of the conditions that was required before an attack in Northern Ireland was that the terrorist would be able to successfully conduct the attack (clearly invariably a hit and run style attack to kill/main, not to seize ground) and GET AWAY. Many attacks were never prosecuted because of the inability of the bad guy to identify the locations, activities or intent of all the members of the GDA patrol. If the escape route is not confirmed clear, it is no-go. Therein lies the weakness and conversely the key to the tactics to defeat them.
I also cover ‘Satellite Patrolling’ in Contact, which again is not a conventional patrolling technique and evolved for this express purpose – to have multiple teams all moving on an  axis, establishing overwatch and the  like. This means that the guy with the sniper rifle, or the trigger man on the IED, will not press the tit on the bomb unless he knows where all your teams are and can be sure that his egress route is clear. This also goes bigger than the simple GDA patrol, to where there will be other patrolling activity going on in depth, in general disrupting enemy freedom of movement, and making it increasingly likely that they will be caught in a dragnet after initiating an attack. Such sophistication of operations will be largely outside the scope for a prepper group.
What does this mean for the prepper? If you have a retreat location, or wherever you are holed up, whether that be remote rural or even urban, you need to move yourself away from the purely defensive mindset. If you end up having to move locations, or forage, then you had better be familiar with tactical movement/patrolling either dismounted or in vehicles, or a combination. If you are not moving location, you need to consider the idea of GDA style local security patrols. This would involve moving out within a smaller footprint, probably no more than a kilometer or two from your location depending on whether it is rural or urban and depending on the available fields of fire for weapons such as sniper rifles to target your location. 
If you are not out there and around and about your land, then what is to stop the guy moving into a hide and waiting for you to come out of your cabin for your morning piss, and putting one through your chest?
But numbers is a problem you will say! Yes, it may very well be. The kind of light infantry style patrols that Mosby and I talk about really rely on small teams to accomplish. So yes, numbers are an advantage. TRAINED numbers. But it may just be husband and wife and the kids at your retreat. And the tomatoes need growing. Well, if you are to go out, then you need to protect the home base. For a family, the wife needs to be back at the cabin protecting it and the kids. The husband (or the other way around, if that is the way it is for you, for whatever reason) needs to be conducting random security patrols around the property and AO. This is where you will want to consider force multipliers, which are largely outside the doctrine of a military FM, such as trained dogs to help with early warning/defense or even the actual patrolling activity itself.
Now, such GDA patrols are only limited by your imagination. You don’t want to be walking around the same perimeter trail at the same time every day. You can even limit the actual movement that you do on these patrols, in favor of greater observation. If you have suitable ground, then move on a covered route and set up temporary observation positions covering approaches or potential hide areas that enemy may use. If you do so, there is great potential for disrupting any planned attack on your location, and at least getting early warning. Yes, it will take you away from tending the tomatoes. That’s what kids and elderly relatives are are for, right? And the XBox won’t work post-collapse anyway. 
A possible example is if you are holed up in an urban area, perhaps a largely vacant high rise. GDA patrolling here would take on a different form – open streets are potential killing areas for snipers, so you will have to learn to creep about through ratlines in buildings, sewers and the like. Patrolling here would also be different. It would be more like movement between vantage points, or observation posts if you like. You would creep through routes you had made within the buildings, using stairwells and holes smashed in apartment walls for example, to various OPs you had established. Or just various vantage points. You could then observe from these and then move on, remaining concealed and out of the open streets. If you had more numbers, you could then think about establishing permanent OPs covering approach routes to your building and then be the ones covering the streets with potential fire. Potential fire that would only be used on positively identified hostiles, not shooting the mother going to collect water or barter for her babies food, as per Sarajevo!

For those worried about the lack of numbers, I did a post on ‘The Lone Wolf’ HERE.
I believe that this article points out very succinctly the danger of relying too much on Military Doctrine or Dogma. Yes, if you have the time and patience etc. then read and digest the Army FMs then they will provide a utility for you. Perhaps less so if you are not prior military and end up confused by them. I don’t think it is useful for prior military types to simply trot out doctrine. It has to be something that is understood and applicable, cherry picking as necessary. Yes, I am partially a result of formal training in military doctrine but that is tempered by operational experience and also differing experience, such as running low and high profile operations in Iraq /Afghanistan in civilianized vehicles. Now,  the Ranger Handbook doesn’t cover that, does it…
That was my purpose in writing ‘Contact!’: To bring a manual that is easily understood whether you are a civilian or have prior military service, and also include experiences and TTP’s within it that are not learned from classic doctrine in FMs.
I was accused by a particularity ignorant couch commando on an Amazon review about ‘Patriot Dawn’ of simply trotting out the Ranger Handbook. Newsflash: I’ve never read it! I downloaded it on Kindle once and opened it, and rapidly shut it again once I saw the content. I served as a British Army Parachute Regiment platoon leader which is light infantry/airborne forces. I have completed the BritMil equivalent of Ranger School, which for me was the infantry Platoon Commander’s Battle Course. Doctrine is standardized across NATO, so once I saw the Handbook, I knew what it was about. The Rangers are cool, but reading the Ranger Handbook may not be the best thing for you.
As an example of that, I have a Ranger Battalion friend who is very critical of Ranger School, simply because his experience is mainly from current ops in Afghanistan. His opinion is that the drills taught at Ranger School, the classic small unit tactics, are outmoded and more applicable to the Vietnam era, to paraphrase him. I both agree and disagree for our purposes. Yes, TTPs have developed for current operations, but sometimes they are really only applicable to those environments. Rangers do have to be retrained in specific Battalion SOPs for current operations. Yes Ranger School is primarily a leadership school using classic tactics as a vehicle for leadership development. However, given the ‘Vietnam’ aspect I personally believe that these more classic light infantry tactics are what we need to be thinking about, and training in, when contemplating potential domestic Resistance operations against enemies both foreign and domestic. But cherry pick what is relevant from both the FMs and current SOPs.
A Note on the Northern Ireland thing: So, some of you think I’m ‘one of the bad guys’ for having served there. You like to sing Irish rebel songs and think that you will be of the same ilk when the hammer falls here. Well, oddly, there is more than you know taken from tactics used by both sides included in my novel and manuals. However, whatever the ‘freedom fighter’ idealism tells you, the reality is that both the loyalist and republican sides in the Irish Troubles were mostly no more than violent criminal gangs utilizing drug smuggling, violence and intimidation. These guys were terrorists, not freedom fighters. There is a line between being a resistance fighter, attacking targets that are considered legitimate Regime elements, and conversely detonating huge bombs in market places, murdering and mutilating innocent people going about their business. Not only is Northern Ireland a democratic part of the United Kingdom, but the terrorist tactics used are disgusting. Perhaps ‘back in the day’ there was a  more courageous aspect to engaging with security forces, and we were still often engaged with small arms fire and had to deal with IEDs and booby traps, which is legitimate as we were part of the security force apparatus. But the main tactic was big bombs on the civilian population. I grew up making sure the curtains were closed at night and checking under the car in the morning.

If the hammer falls here, there are two things that I will not do: 1) engage in terrorist activities. I am prepared to fight a foreign or domestic enemy utilizing unconventional warfare tactics. I will not, for example, detonate bombs indiscriminately; I will never be a terrorist. 2) I will not pack my kit and ship out to fight with the Resistance if my family is not in a protected location, secure from reprisals. How many of you have thought about that?

Omagh Massacre
Live Hard, Die Free.


  1. Anonymous says:

    One of the main reasons that so many “prepers” rely on “defending the homestead” is that so many of them (a) have a pile of small children who will die if left with moma.(b)are over 50 and over 300lb OR are over 60and in poor health. And (c) My favorite, They live in a fantasy world of doomsday books, “bug out” fantasy’s, and wishful thinking.— One place where I think “Mosby” is dead wrong is his contempt for ANY weapon other than the AR-15/M-16 used at point blank range. Weapons are just tools, you use the best one to get the job done. That’s not all ways the AR, or even an assault rifle. Mosby is far to dogmatic about weapons. As for the rest I tend to agree with you on the parts I know anything about (dose NOT include the British army-the IRA-or the 800 year long war in Ireland)

    • John Mosby says:

      I don’t hold contempt for ANY weapon other than the Stoner platform, and certainly don’t believe it’s useful only at point blank range. In fact, one of the reasons I personally prefer the Stoner over the Kalash is because it is effective at longer ranges than the Russian weapon…..The reason I advocate it over the beloved .308 M1A and FAL is because I’ve humped those heavy fuckers for weeks on end, and if you think people don’t want to hump a ruck on patrol because they’re over 300lbs, or otherwise out of shape, wait til you add the extra weight of an unnecessarily heavy rifle…..

    • StukaPilot says:

      carrying an M1A builds upper body strength and general stamina

    • Quietus says:

      That’s interesting about heavy rifles building upper body strength and general stamina. At Ft. Dix while doing D&C under the tutelage of a former member of the regiment that works at Arlington, my mind would occasionally wander to how the Depression-era scrawny draftees of WW2 got built up with the same D&C. A wandering mind is a good tool sometimes during unpleasant times.

      But the other side of heavy rifles building upper body strength and stamina, is that heavy rifles degrade strength and stamina when you have to do other things besides carrying them.

    • Anonymous says:

      You want upper body strength? Then carry dumbbells. You want to be able to fight? Carry a lighter rifle.

    • Anonymous says:

      Why not do both? Carry the heavy rifle for training. Then when you carry that light rifle it will be like nothing at all.

    • Anonymous says:

      Funny you talk about the AR-15 as a “light” rifle A friend has an AR with so much crap on the rails that the damn thing is 2lb heavier than my M-1 Garand.

    • Anonymous says:

      I have always believed in training with a weapon system in it’s barest form – iron sights. Why? Iron sights are less likely to break. They do not require batteries. They weigh virtually nothing compared to battery powered optics and sights. They do not create tunnel vision, unlike scopes and optics. By all means train with additional scopes and fancy sights, but do not become wholly dependent on them. So many people seem to be in the mindset of thinking that having the best most expensive sight systems will automatically make them the biggest baddest killing machine in the field. How good will your shooting be if your technology fails?

      When I went through Phase 1 at Sir John Moore and Phase 2 at Catterick Infantry Training Centre back in the 90’s, we predominantly trained to rely on iron sights. We did also train heavily with the SUSAT during Phase 2 but still kept a high emphasis on iron sights. When on live fire exercises we always carried our iron sights as back up. Why? So that if the SUSAT failed we could fall back on our iron sights and still effectively engage targets up to 400m. When learning other weapon systems such as the GPMG and more recently the LMG (M249), again iron sights were the order of the day. Instructors had a saying – High Tech Low Skill vs Low Tech High Skill. Since ACOG’s became the norm for Infantry training in the last few years, I have noticed a drop in actual marksmanship amongst British soldiers when they have to revert to their basic iron sights. A sad indictment of how things have changed.

      If I had to choose iron sights or fancy holographic sights or red dot scopes, I’ll take iron sights ever time.

    • John Mosby says:

      Modern optics are as robust, or more robust, than most iron sights on most rifles. There are numerous examples of optics actually taking hits from enemy fire, and still functioning. Irons don’t do that as well. I regularly drop one of my rifles, EoTech first, onto the pavement at rifle classes, to demonstrate exactly this. They are also faster to acquire, more precise, and in the case of magnification, allow for more accurate positive target identification. That’s not to say there’s anything wrong with irons, but they are a distant second in desirability to a quality optic.

    • Anonymous says:

      Don’t get me wrong, I believe modern scopes and optics do have their part to play and when used correctly, do have their benefits, depending on the terrain. The point I’m getting at though is they should be taken for what they are – add on’s. Too many people rely solely on one type of sighting system. They buy add on’s without first getting to grips with the weapons original features. Who here regularly checks that their iron sights are zeroed (providing they have them fitted of course) whilst checking their optic’s are zero? Likewise, some optics have emergency battlefield iron sights as part of their design. How many people practice using them? Too many people buy tech purely because it looks nice.

  2. Phelps says:

    I had always assumed that everyone knew you had to ride your fences. I’m astonished that this is news to some people.

  3. FormerSapper says:

    As far as moving between OPs in the urban environment, I know a lot of that happened in Kosovo and they’d also have gazelles come in at night and make multiple stops on different roofs so that the Kosovans and Serbs wouldn’t know where they’d in fact been put down. They would also get in to empty apartments at night where they knew flare ups happened and would pour out and start stacking up at the location.

    With regards to NI, well I’m sure some gobshite operating on the 1 drop rule to claim that he is Irish will be along to tell the world that you are evil however…

    I agree that targeting civilians was a pussy move. I can understand (not condone) IEDs, 50 cal sniper rifles and M60s out of windows aimed at the security forces but blowing up a market heck I can even understand executing infiltrators. Bombing civilians that are nothing to do with the war is what utter faggots do. Plain and simple.

  4. Anonymous says:

    The people that support the Irish Republican militants are some of the dumbest mofo’s I’ve ever encountered, they always ignore the fact that they wantonly placed bombs in civilian areas. Even if the “RA” mostly called in warnings before the boom, they still ended up destroying property and wounding/killing innocent women and children. Then of course later on came the Remembrance Day Bombing and Omagh, which deliberately targeted civilians. Opinions aside, judging by their kill tally (which was fewer than 1100 security personel over a 29 year period), the republican paramilitaries stand as one of the least effective armies in history. Hell, illiterate Afghan peasants killed more Soviets than that in just a handful of years! For those “Americans” who STILL support the “RA”, keep in mind that they are also Socialist/Marxist! Still think they fight for freedom?

  5. Anonymous says:

    I’m gonna caption the pose photo above

    Guy with AK: “Gerry, for the last time get your damned finger OFF of the 40-mike trigger!”

    Gerry: “Ok Boss, Why are we wearing British issue smocks again?”

    Guy with AK: “To look cool mate”

    Gerry: “Wait, that means that the Brits look cool, yeah?”

    Guy with Ak: “What?…no…we have blue jeans! you cant be a badass with camo trousers!”

    Gerry: “I dunno like, I feel like a knob with these white gloves on”

    Add on!

  6. There are three mini-sereies on The Troubles I suggest every American watch: Provos, Loyalists, and Brits. It will dispel any notions you had about the conflict in Northern Ireland. You could chalk the MK (South Africa) up there with them, for they also deliberately killed civilians.

    And blue jeans, in my opinion, are terrible for long patrols in the woods. They don’t retain heat when wet, so pack extras.

  7. Anonymous says:

    I remember watching those specials on youtube a few years back, great shows. The “RA” should’ve worn black pajamas instead, everyone knows you cant win a guerrilla war without em!

  8. Anonymous says:

    Taking the dog for a walk is a GDA if we are talking about civility and society. Think of being a decent law abiding black family in some war zone in Chiraq, Illinois where literally you are locked in your house while shitheads dominate the streets in areas no white snotty lib would even think to live. Anyway I would prefer civility and society to SHTF, but recognize the need to prepare in case of the need to keep it frosty. RobRoy

  9. Anonymous says:

    Max, I’m an American of Irish descent. Growing up as a kid my home was just as likely to be filled with the sound of the Clancy Brothers as Jethro Tull. I still sing many of the ‘old rebel songs’. Heck, my kids know the words to Amhran na bhFiann (in English at present, of course) – all the verses, not just the ‘official’ one.

    Having said that, I am still working on rounding up the pingan to come train with you up in West Virginny. I promise I won’t be humming ‘Come Out You Black and Tans’. The fact you decided to come across the Pond and join with us ‘Yanks’ (in the international sense of the term, of course) and help spread martial knowledge and your understanding of the Warrior Way to all of us is good enough for me.

    Now, for those who enjoy the knee-jerk bashing of the Irish Republican cause, get a life. Atrocities were committed on both sides – Republican, Loyalist, British. The Troubles covered a LONG period of history, going back hundreds of years, with atrocities committed on all sides of the conflict.

    As for the Republicans being ‘socialist/Marxist’, many are/were, many are/were not. Irish Republicanism is a phenomenon which does not fit neatly into the standard boilerplate boxes we have been spoon fed all our lives.

    Finally, let’s all pray and work to keep America from going down the shit drain any further than it has. I may be of Irish descent, but I’m an AMERICAN. Hopefully the rest of you all are too. (Hint, being AMERICAN is as much as a state of mind as a nationality…)

    • Anonymous says:

      The Troubles only covered a period of about 30 years. Any previous actions or crimes by the above parties are irrelevant to the discussion. If invasion by the Brits eight centuries ago justified the actions of the 1969-present “RA”, then I guess we can excuse Hitler for starting the Second World War, based on the results of the Thirty Years War? Bottom line, Ireland is already independent, piss-poor and socialist, but independent. Adding six counties aint gonna change that.

  10. Anonymous says:

    OK i’ll read your two books.

    loud mouth american navy

  11. Anonymous says:

    My dogs do my patrolling. Anyone attacking my dogs in a post collapse scenario may end up as dog food(My dog has to eat too). The sign should read: beware of dogs and the dog’s family that is scoping what may be drawing the dogs attention. So much for your “patrol” idea for this 60 year old in poor health. Go ahead and bring 50 guys armed to the teeth to smoke me out. When I shoot up the Kenyan beehives full of killer bees, I will be laughing and shooting while they are all doing the run for your life from millions of killer bees dance. Think I am kidding? Kick a wild bee hive full of killer bees and they(half million pissed off bees) will chase you a half mile delivering hundreds of stings which will bring on anaphalactic shock. No worry though if you just attacked my home …my stinger is a 30 caliber rifle round…I will get you while the bees do you in. Even if you get to a vehicle, I will put a few 12 gauge shotgun slugs through your windshield and the bees will enter your vehicle as they smell the bees you crushed on your bady as you were fleeing. My dogs and bees are on patrol 24/7. I will pick you off while you are dealing with them. I ain’t sellin a book either so no thanks for your patrol idea. Any half brain knows that if you expose yourself outside of your home you are an easy target. A patrol is a bad idea. My patrolling friends will give me warm tongues, wagging tails and tasty honey. They will also prevent you from attacking me and will keep you occupied while Inail you with a high powered, scoped rifle.

    • Max Velocity says:

      Actually I think you really do have a book idea there: ‘SHTF defense with killed bees and bulletproof dogs’. You are exactly the guy that Mosby was trying to help with his original post. May I make a polite suggestion? Less talking and more listening….perhaps?

    • FormerSapper says:


      Your bees can be killed with pesticide and your dogs can be disabled with drugged meat or a suppressed .22lr. How on earth do you as a single rifleman plan to deal with multiple assailants using scoped rifles, 81mm mortars and technicals?

    • Anonymous says:

      @ Anon 5:57: Funny, but to actually defend your property as a lone individual you will need force multipliers. I am referring, of course, to the arming and training of Chimpanzees. I’m sure you can find a few escaped Chimp colonies in the Florida Everglades, bring home the babies and start indoctrinating them to be absolutely loyal to you. Start off training them on the use of airsoft weapons, then move up to blanks, then live rifle and carbine fire. Once trained, deploy your Chimp squads on your forested perimeter, they will naturally defend their territory to the death. The best part is that even if they run out of ammo, they can still charge and tear apart their enemies with bare hands, and sustain themselves in the field by feasting upon trespassing corpses!


  12. Historian says:

    Last I checked, neither hives nor bees were fireproof. And silenced pistols handle dogs nicely.

    History shows that dependence on fixed defences is a losing strategy.

  13. Anonymous says:

    For some levity go to youtube search for “Chimp with AK-47”

  14. Anonymous says:

    All I can do at 57 yrs. old with minor health problems and wife and 30 yr. old downs syndrome daughter is to stay put. There won’t be any bugging out. I can set up some foxholes/sandbags, concertina wire, barbed wire to try to funnel them a certain way. Set up sniper spots. Get dogs. Try to learn some type of diversionary explosives with fireworks. Patrol around within a couple of hundred yards. Try to make the enemy feel like Burt Reynolds in Deliverance, never knowing which direction fire will come from. Or a yankee wondering if Jack Hinson is in the area. The neighbors are all in La-La land at this point and any violation of my opsec to discuss the trouble to come would probably meet with a stunned look and a change of the subject. They think they have avoided risk by being in bonds and not stocks. We do have a couple of retired colonels down the street but they seem like gung-ho for the govt. types and pushed paper instead of knowing how to fight. I won’t be taking orders from them when the time comes. Just do the best we can. If the collapse is light, we might survive. If it is unimaginable, we will die.

  15. Anonymous says:

    A little something overlooked in this, IF y’all form a CIDG, dig in, set wire and start aggressive patrolling your group will become the focus of military and gang activity almost at once. The more aggressive your stance ,the more likely you are to invite air strikes, counter patrols and government counter gurrilla OPP’s. The gangs will start believing you have something worth stealing, making you an instant target for them too. Don’t think so? Then look at every “war” NATO has been involved in. EVERY time a village forms a CIDG outside government control “coalition forces” attack. REMEMBER! The “enemy” is ANYONE outside direct government control.

  16. Anonymous says:

    To Anon July 22 @ 7:06 am: Attracting the attention of Government or some strong regular force is one thing, but attracting the attention of a street gang (in a SHTF situation)is not a big f***ing deal. In a true crisis, the gangs will be fighting each other over resources, and successful incursions into suburban or rural areas would probably become rare. There are very few American gangs that are truly formidable paramilitary forces, most are just armed thugs that are no more effective with their weapons than your average Afghan. Consider how combat-ineffective most gang-members are right now (having firefights within 20 yards of each other with zero hits!) and that is their performance on full bellies! I cant imagine that they will be much better when they’ve been starving and parched for days.

    There isn’t a magic trick to survival, but I think I’m safe in saying that in any crisis neighborhood defense groups will be of critical importance! As Max said, people need to feel that their families are secure, and there is no way to do that in SHTF-land without a local defense/militia/guard/etc. unit.


    • Anonymous says:

      Well Saxon that might be true for the black street gangs. BUT. It is NOT true for the Latin gangs who are stone killers and have “sets” in every small city in the Midwest. The Latin gangs regularly attack the police and military and have begun attacking drug cops here in the US. YOU may not think that people who murder at will and without fear are “Not a big F***ing deal” but they will attack without mercy if they think you have what they want. They are more than willing to attack government forces now for guns and revenge. What do you think they’ll do for food?

    • Chuck says:

      @Anon July 22, 2013 at 11:57 AM

      Okay, so the Latin gangs are bad juju…so what’s your answer to the problem? You dismiss CIDGs as bullet magnets for the .gov and gangs. So what’s your solution? Bug out? Lay low and hope for the best? Die in place? Report to the FEMA camps and throw yourself on the mercy of the .gov? Just give up and blow your brains out?

      Inquiring minds want to know.

    • Anonymous says:

      To Anon July 22 @ 11:57 AM: I’m referring to all street gangs (regardless of ethnicity or membership criteria) , sure MS-13 were originally made up of Salvadorian Army veterans, but how are their skills today? Don’t get me wrong, I sure as hell wouldn’t WANT to mess with them, but I’m also not going to bitch out and let them steamroll over what is left of civilization if SHTF. These cartels control Mexico for two primary reasons; 1st: because the Mexican government is corrupt to the core and thoroughly infiltrated by cartel loyalists, 2nd: because Mexican citizens do not have a constitutional right to bear arms, it is conditional, and most of the legal private arms in Mexico have zero military value. However, some citizens there ARE organizing their own CIDG’s in order to take their villages back from the semi-feudal cartels. My hats go off to them for their bravery!

      As for the gang presence in the US? The only reason they flourish here is because the higher ups in the Federal LE orgs would rather they not be defeated. Why would the DEA and BATFE want to get rid of their raison d’être? If we no longer had a gang problem, then the jack-boots would have a tough time justifying their demands for more personnel, more funding, and bigger paychecks! Looking at the Constitution, The Federal gov could get rid of the country’s gang proplem easily, all they have to do is declare certain gangs to be outlaw groups in open rebellion against all order and society. By doing that, it would be open season! These gangsters wear uniforms, some have tattoos all over their damned face. These gangs would be wiped out in a matter of weeks if TPTB decided to man up and go to war with these bastards!

      Remember, evil exists because good men do nothing.


  17. Thank you for your excellent articles.
    I’m pleased to see so many Americans preparing for whats inevitably coming.
    I’m also very happy I was raised and live in the American West. I feel the East and Left Coasts will feel the effects of National disintegration and civil unrest first.
    Coming from an energy producing State I’d like to point out that I find it highly unlikely that fuel production and supplies will continue. Once the electrical grid fails there is no way to continue refining or continue pipe line supply. Once refueling station supplies are exhausted there will be no resupply. At least not in the near future.
    Most vehicles for patrol or any other reason will be out of whatever fuel you’ve stored very quickly. As well as repair or replacement parts. No one will be manufacturing or delivering.
    I suppose the West is unique because of the distances between everything.
    I visited back east once and realized in the distance it takes for me to go to the Dentist here I would have driven through three States back East.
    I would like to recommend to your readers that they learn to ride, care for and pack a horse. If you have to flee your region and come West or East your SOL when you hit the Great Plains or Great Basin Desert if your on foot. I would recommend taking the family on a horse pack trip in the Rockies with a reputable outfitter and learn.
    RDH WY

  18. More on patrolling. Most Westerners live in very rural areas. Our closest neighbor is a quarter of a mile and we have 14 neighbors within 4 miles. Most are clustered in family properties were the kids build a place next to the folks and help with the ranch and farm work. The country here is high desert with broken terrain, ridges, rims and coulees with high mountains surrounding the basin. I Cowboy for one of the local ranches when they need help gathering in the fall. We typically gather two main pastures. One is 11×11 miles square. Five or six of us can gather it in one day. The other is 50×50 miles square. That one takes a couple of weeks or more and several good horses. It’s typical to only catch an occasional glimpse of any of the other riders till the end of the day. I’ve thought a lot about what it would be like to try to cross this rugged and desolate country on foot with all you possess on your back.
    There is no potable or drinkable water in this country. The cattle adapt to drinking alkali water by doing so in degrees. A human would become deathly ill.
    It’s one thing to jet down the highway in a heated/air conditioned vehicle and completely different to ride across it and something completely different again to hike it. I don’t see roving gangs of outlaws from either coast making it here. Distance and logistics being what they are. Then when you/if get here there are us locals. My old Dad used to say the meaner the country the meaner the Indian.
    That being said the only real threat we see is the local Indian reservation. The rate of violent crime on the Res is substantial. Almost all crime is perpetrated by Indians against other Indians. We all wonder what will happen when they swipe they’re EBT card and it doesn’t work. I don’t think it will go over well. Patrolling here, after fuel becomes scarce or to valuable, will be on horseback for the most part as will most forms of commerce. The homesteaders here will protect their properties and family’s fiercely with fire-support from the neighbors and posse’s.
    I don’t see any Federal issues out here as in martial law and Swat Team raids.
    The Federals will have there hands full in the metro areas and if they prevail in the North East they will have to deal with the South. That won’t be a cake walk. Those Southern boys are tough and self reliant and the terrain favors them.
    RDH, WY